Saturday, August 9, 2008

Did Israel target civilians in Jenin? (yes)

One of the main propaganda points of Zionism is that Zionist soldiers never target civilians. In fact, the indiscriminate use of firepower, as well as targeting, is a widespread practice. Here, we take Jenin: (again this is not exhaustive, bc the post would, sadly, be way too long)

"At least four persons were killed by the IDF because they were outside during curfews or walked in areas declared "closed" by the Israeli army. Such use of lethal force to enforce curfews or "closed" areas is a widespread practice by the IDF. The use of lethal force against civilians who do not abide by curfews or are found in "closed" areas is unjustified, and a violation of the international humanitarian law provisions prohibiting the targeting of civilians. International humanitarian law requires that the IDF use less lethal means to enforce its curfews and "closed" areas."

"The Israelis had just arrived and Hani wanted to open the main gate to the house. He wanted to see what was going on outside. Then, [as he opened the gate], they [IDF] shot him in the leg. He started screaming. When he tried to stand up and run back home, they shot him in the abdomen and chest."

"Fadil Musharaka attempted to call an ambulance to remove Zubeidi's body, but was unable to get through to the hospital on his mobile phone. Meanwhile, nineteen-year-old Imad Musharaka, an unarmed civilian, attempted to reach Zubeidi's body and pull it out of the street. Fadil watched as the IDF soldiers shot his brother Imad: "Imad tried to pull Ziad's body out of the street, but [the IDF soldiers] shot him in the leg. When he tried to stand up again, he was shot in the head. After one half hour, the ambulance came, and took both bodies to the hospital. Imad was a civilian, he was watching there with me."27 The shooting in broad daylight of an unarmed civilian, Imad Musharaka, requires a war crimes investigation. "

"Concerned about the damage reported to his home by his wife, Atiya decided to go check for himself, despite the protests of his wife. Two minutes later, Hala' heard her husband calling for help with some difficulty. Hala' and her children ran up to the room, and found Atiya standing, seriously wounded. Atiya looked at his wife and children before starting to collapse, and his wife then noticed the gunshot wound to his head. Human Rights Watch researchers examined the room where Atiya was shot, and found that the nearby home that had been occupied by IDF soldiers during the Jenin operation-the same home that was the source of the firing that killed Atiya's son Hani on April 3-was clearly visible from where Atiya had been standing when he was shot. The trajectory of the bullets, indicated by following the path of the bullets through the window into the wall behind Atiya, pointed directly to the home that had been occupied by the IDF.

Hala' called an ambulance, but the IDF soldiers did not allow the ambulance to proceed:

I started screaming, asking anyone to call an ambulance. The ambulance came, but it was prevented from reaching us. Atiya was still breathing at the time. But there was no aid, no ambulance. I couldn't go outside because there were Israeli snipers and tanks everywhere. All this time we were just crawling.39

Atiya died from the gunshot wound within the hour:"

"Their eighteen-year-old son Munir Wishahi saw the tanks coming towards their home. He became afraid and decided to run away: "When he saw the tanks coming and all of the shooting, he said, `They are going to kill us,' and ran outside the house." Soon after Munir left the house, he was shot by the advancing Israeli forces. His parents heard him yell out, "I'm wounded!" and then saw him being brought to the hospital by local youngsters. Munir died on the way to the hospital."

My final example, is the bulldozing death of a man in a wheelchair:

"Early the next day, April 6, Fayid's mother and sister returned home to check Fayid's well-being. He was unharmed. Fayid's sister told how she and her mother ran to IDF soldiers in the street to ask permission to retrieve him:

We tried to beg the soldiers that there was a paralyzed man in there. We even showed them his identity card. The ones on the street told us to go away. So we ran to [soldiers in] a neighboring house and said the same. We begged and begged. So eventually they let five women into the house and try to carry him out.58

Fayid's mother, aunt, sister, and two neighbors entered the house. Shortly afterwards they heard the sound of a bulldozer approaching:

It came and began to destroy the house. We could hear people on the street shouting, "Stop! There are women inside the house! Stop!" The soldiers even knew we were in there because they had said we could go into the house and get Jamal out.59

Despite the shouting, the bulldozer continued. The women ran out as the house swayed and crumbled around them, crushing the paralyzed Fayid in the rubble. The soldier in the bulldozer cursed at them, calling them bitches. The women ran into another house for safety. The IDF medic who had helped them the day before raged and swore at the bulldozer driver.

The women stayed in the area for three days, and then returned again to the rubble when the incursion had ended. "At night we slept somewhere else, and during the day we came here to find him. We looked all day yesterday, but we could not find him."60 Fayid's body was recovered from the rubble on April 21, fifteen days after the house was demolished on top of him. It is difficult to see what military goal could have been furthered or what legitimate consideration of urgent military necessity could be put forward to justify the crushing to death of Jamal Fayid without giving his family the opportunity to remove him from his home. This case requires investigation as a possible war crime."

These few examples, with many more to be seen merely clicking on the HRW link, document Israeli atrocities in Jenin. Zionists deny it, yet we have the documentary record right here.


dw said...

Well what makes Israel better than their neighbors? Building a world class oasis where all others have been content to live the rustic God king lifestyle fucking their goats and children and hating and fearing everybody for any reason whatsoever. They kill of each other at an appalling rate. Could it be Israels world class contributions to humanity, their contributions to the arts and research? Maybe their unusual per capita Nobel prize winners amids an anti Semitic world is an impressive achievement. How about being literally surrounded by rabid dogs and risking life and limb to avoid merely killing them all. They give jobs, supply electricity and medical care to the Palestinians that shit all over them, kill them and blame them for a hang nail and every body is building a fence to keep them in. No oil wealthy prince or Mullah wants to even send them aid. Only the Swiss love that idea. But known terrorists love em. Can you say, 'to fucking stupid to live' or 'useful fucking idiots'? Spin all day, it won't help the enemies of Israel but we will. Unbelievable. Had you any power or influence you would be a dangerous man, even to yourself.

I hate killing and suffering and that is why I would use it to end the miserable existence of those that promote and normalize it. The innocents always suffer. Where ever their is a need to fight and kill they are always right there in the way. Whats wrong with that picture. And the evil of collateral damage only apples to the responsible power trying to solve a problem? Whats wrong with that picture?

You belong over there with your like minded buds.

Yerushalimey said...

Dear Archie (as in Archie Bunker, the bigot):
I don't want to hog your comments column. Go ahead, respond to "dw."

You still haven't debunked Zionism.
All you've done is report some bad behavior, old news.

Writing about how individual Americans or past US governments have hurt people doesn't mean the USA has no right to exist, it doesn't invalidate the US Constitution.

Come on: debunk Zionism - compare it to other political philosophies, or something.

Yerushalimey said...

I just checked wikipedia, where I found the following:
" * April 10 - BBC reports that Israel estimates 150 Palestinians died in Jenin but Palestinians say the number is far higher.[31]

* Saeb Erekat on a phone interview to CNN from Jericho, estimates 500 dead in the whole Israeli offensive and states that the Jenin refuge camp no longer exists and that reports of executions are coming from there.[32] Israelis gave their response a short time later saying that it is a fabrication and a lie.[33]

* April 11 - negotiated surrender of 34 Palestinian militants.[6] Palestinians are reporting 500 dead.[34]"

So you're saying that Israel lies, huh? You say that 52 Arabs were killed; the Arabs said 500.

Who shall we believe?

dw said...

He can't respond in the context of my comment. Unless he is demented and I don't think he is.

"Who shall we believe?"

Seems to me that if you are forced to chose a side when you do not know the truth? ... Well I guess it makes sense believing the sadistic, hate mongering, sociopath death worshiping fascist pedophiles that are willing to die for 70 little girls to enslave and sodomize.

Say! You aren't a member of the Global International Pedophile Lobby are you?

You need to seriously rethink what the hell you are supporting, if you are a normal rational human being.

Gatta give em credit. He doan delete comments he daon like.

DebunkingZionism said...

Dw: The fact that you cant figure out what is a serious source and what isn't reflects your own ignorance. Of course, HRW mass documentation and stellar record is better than the emotional outburst of Saeb Erekat, who was receiving reports while the camp was closed off to everyone and tale of the destruction were leaking. Wow, youre ignoran, arent you?

The other one-Im glad you agree Israel targeted civilians in Jenin. Thats a good start. Good boy.

Yerushalimey said...

archie bunker:
I'm glad you don't deny that Arabs/Palestinians are liars. Good start. Good boy.
Just because Saeb Erekat didn't have accurate information, he shouldn't have told lies. Why do you apologize for liars?
Are you going to apologize for the lies about Al Dura? How about good old Green Helmet?
I guess you think it is OK to lie as long as the lie is about Israel.

Now, how about doing some debunking, explaining what is wrong with Zionism?

I don't need to hear about what Israelis and Jews have done wrong. I can look at lying Arab websites or wikipedia for that.
Tell me about how Zionism isn't a sound political philosophy.

dw said...

Unlike the West, Muslims practice total war. The women and children are expected to take part. They make good shields the prire is getting them killed with a Reuters reporter on hand. But even better is giving them free camreas to make their own provoked or staged footage. Try looking for Palywood.

For the West, and Israel, non combatants helping and supporting the hatemongers is a moral nightmare. For like minded heathen at war, it's is just 'war'.

Does it seem odd to you that when Muslims fight one another it is brutal and total. But when they fight the West they whine and cry about humanity and fair play.